Comments on: Floor Hardness vs. Strength http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/ Home improvement and related topics from four evening and weekend warriors striving for the perfect homes... Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:32:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Todd http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-510 Todd Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:04:05 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-510 Fred, I didn't mean to say you were in error....just thought the post was not clear. Actually I applaud your post...most DIY folks get them selves in trouble when they play around with structure. I only wanted to point out the importance of consulting with someone on structural problems. Fred,

I didn’t mean to say you were in error….just thought the post was not clear. Actually I applaud your post…most DIY folks get them selves in trouble when they play around with structure. I only wanted to point out the importance of consulting with someone on structural problems.

]]> By: Fred http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-508 Fred Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:27:22 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-508 Todd, Thanks for the point about the elasticity of concrete with rebar in it. I will correct the post to remove the statement about brittle floors. I actually knew about the x^3 strength ratio when adding height to the beam; I just didn't write about it here. (Your comment sounded like you were correcting an error in my post that isn't there). Thanks for weighing in (and setting me straight on the concrete). Fred Todd,

Thanks for the point about the elasticity of concrete with rebar in it. I will correct the post to remove the statement about brittle floors.

I actually knew about the x^3 strength ratio when adding height to the beam; I just didn’t write about it here. (Your comment sounded like you were correcting an error in my post that isn’t there).

Thanks for weighing in (and setting me straight on the concrete).

Fred

]]> By: Todd http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-507 Todd Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:12:01 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-507 Wow.....where to start...first off I'm a structural engineer....so I'd like to say some of what you said isn't exactly technically correct. Your comparison of hardness versus strength is right on. However, your statement about concrete is actually a bit misleading. Reinforced concrete is actually quite elastic at failure. Now if there's no rebar in it then it is brittle. Also, whether it's steel, concrete or wood, the strength of a beam is not proportional to it's depth. In fact, beams tend to be stronger by a power of 3 with respect to depth. When in doubt...consult an engineer! This post was a great reminder for everyone about structural integrity in houses! Wow…..where to start…first off I’m a structural engineer….so I’d like to say some of what you said isn’t exactly technically correct. Your comparison of hardness versus strength is right on. However, your statement about concrete is actually a bit misleading. Reinforced concrete is actually quite elastic at failure. Now if there’s no rebar in it then it is brittle. Also, whether it’s steel, concrete or wood, the strength of a beam is not proportional to it’s depth. In fact, beams tend to be stronger by a power of 3 with respect to depth. When in doubt…consult an engineer! This post was a great reminder for everyone about structural integrity in houses!

]]> By: Bill B http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-502 Bill B Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:11:02 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-502 Anita, The pool table is the equivilant of a waterbed. While it may not be as heavy as a waterbed there is a problem of location. Most waterbeds are adjacent to a wall. This makes the span supporting the bed shorter. The pool table, though it may weigh less, is most likely located in the center of the floor joist span; that is, centered between the walls, its' weakest point. The 40lb per foot dead load mentioned by Fred is accurate. Take the weight of the table divided by the sq ft area it takes up to see where you land. (Small pun). Pool tables, like waterbeds, work best in basements! Good luck, Bill Anita,
The pool table is the equivilant of a waterbed.
While it may not be as heavy as a waterbed there is a problem of location. Most waterbeds are adjacent to a wall. This makes the span supporting the bed shorter.
The pool table, though it may weigh less, is most likely located in the center of the floor joist span; that is, centered between the walls, its’ weakest point.
The 40lb per foot dead load mentioned by Fred is accurate.
Take the weight of the table divided by the sq ft area it takes up to see where you land. (Small pun).
Pool tables, like waterbeds, work best in basements!
Good luck,
Bill

]]> By: Anita http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-498 Anita Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:04:22 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-498 Well this is something that we'd never really thought about until recently. You see we have this billiards table that we would really, really like to put in our upstairs gameroom... But we don't know how long it would STAY in the upstairs gameroom before it unceremoniously lands in the living room below. :) All I know at this point is that our second-level floor consists of a lot of metal beams in an X pattern. Know anything about this? Well this is something that we’d never really thought about until recently. You see we have this billiards table that we would really, really like to put in our upstairs gameroom…
But we don’t know how long it would STAY in the upstairs gameroom before it unceremoniously lands in the living room below. :)

All I know at this point is that our second-level floor consists of a lot of metal beams in an X pattern. Know anything about this?

]]> By: Fred http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-496 Fred Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:36:22 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-496 Andy, I'm going to write a post soon about how I learned this lesson the hard way. Essentially, I almost dropped an aquarium through the third floor in my first apartment after college. Fortunately we caught it before it went through (the floor had separated from the wall). I have that same aquarium on the first floor in my current home now, but I sistered new joists to the existing ones to support it. It's now spanning 11 2x10s. I have some good aquarium tips if you want an awesome freshwater tank. Andy, I’m going to write a post soon about how I learned this lesson the hard way. Essentially, I almost dropped an aquarium through the third floor in my first apartment after college. Fortunately we caught it before it went through (the floor had separated from the wall). I have that same aquarium on the first floor in my current home now, but I sistered new joists to the existing ones to support it. It’s now spanning 11 2×10s. I have some good aquarium tips if you want an awesome freshwater tank.

]]> By: southsideandy http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-494 southsideandy Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:34:37 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-494 Part of the reason I'm redoing the basement family room is because the PO left a huge 125-gallon aquarium that I'm just itching to set up. But there's no way in heaven or hell that thing is coming anywhere near my first or second floors. Basement or bust! :) I'm semi-wary of having the 38-gallon aquarium up here in the office with me. But I'm pretty sure that's not a huge problem, plus it'll be moved once the family room is done too. Part of the reason I’m redoing the basement family room is because the PO left a huge 125-gallon aquarium that I’m just itching to set up. But there’s no way in heaven or hell that thing is coming anywhere near my first or second floors. Basement or bust! :)

I’m semi-wary of having the 38-gallon aquarium up here in the office with me. But I’m pretty sure that’s not a huge problem, plus it’ll be moved once the family room is done too.

]]> By: Fred http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-492 Fred Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:18:48 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-492 Joanne, We have a lease with tenants and specify no "extra heavy items" including waterbeds, large aquariums, weight sets, etc. Hopefully your tenants will abide by your wishes even without it in the lease. Thanks for stopping by! Joanne, We have a lease with tenants and specify no “extra heavy items” including waterbeds, large aquariums, weight sets, etc. Hopefully your tenants will abide by your wishes even without it in the lease. Thanks for stopping by!

]]> By: Joanne http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-491 Joanne Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:42:07 +0000 http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/materials/floor-hardness-vs-strength/#comment-491 You just reminded me that I forgot to put "no water beds" in my lease for tenants. You just reminded me that I forgot to put “no water beds” in my lease for tenants.

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